In this episode, we talk with Jeremy Spielman. He’s the Assistant Director at the National Paideia Center. Jeremy is an experienced teacher, principal, system administrator, and school-transformation agent. And, yes we do ask him to explain what in the world a ‘school-transformation agent’ is. We're also joined by Aryn Erwin, a 4th grade teacher at Wolflin Elementary, who is entering her fourth year of implementing Paideia in her classroom.
0:01 – Welcome and Overview of Episode.
01:30 – Update on Amtech Career Academy.
02:29 – Jeremy Spielman, Assistant Director at the National Paideia Center: Introduction and bio info.
07:20 – Jeremy discusses his Paideia Seminar involvement with Wolflin Elementary School
12:52 – The idea of failure, when things don’t work the way we want them to work but how that leads to an opportunity to shape and form growth: “Calculated risk is essential for growth.”
16:30 – Jeremy describes what Paedeia is and what it can lead to according to the research: “Teaching how to think, not what to think.”
20:23 – Aryn Erwin, 4th Grade teacher at Wolflin Elementary, shares her classroom Paideia experiences and observations: “They’re learning critical thinking skills.”
29:14 – “...microwave solutions to crock pot problems.”
35:26 – Round-table discussions of the ripple effects that occur.
40:17 – Closing thoughts.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I don't, I'm not, I'm struggling with how to start this. I'm just, maybe I'm just gonna say, um, Hey everybody. Welcome back to season two of Schoolwork New school year, new season, new Vision, and actually a new voice. I'm excited to introduce Heather Yas, who's gonna be joining me this year. And, uh, Heather, welcome. We're really excited about you being a part of schoolwork and, um, and what you're gonna bring and your voice and your passion for, for helping our staff and, and our a s d community learn and grow. So, glad to have you.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Thanks for having me, Kevin. I am so excited to be here and the excitement of what's coming, what we have planned for you guys, not even just in professional and personal development. And we just got done having a conversation with Jeremy Spielman from pide, and he's been working with some of our elementary schools, specifically wolfly, and we also have Aaron Irwin with us too, which she has taken, taken some amazing risk, um, with the pide a seminar. And so we are super excited to kick this year off with a well-rounded conversation with Jeremy, not just about pide, but also about, um, education and where we're going and just connecting with kids in a deep way.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Absolutely. We're, we're, this is good stuff, and, uh, I won't, you know, we, we specifically talk a little bit about padea, but we also really just talk about public education and, and helping kids be, you know, better thinkers and people and brothers and sisters and sons and daughters. And so it's, it's really cool stuff. Um, before we jump into that, just a little news around A I S D, um, really cool thing. We added another campus to our family, uh, in Amtech, and so we're really excited about phase one of Amtech and they still have a little bit of construction going on there with phase one, but all in all, it's been a really, really good time. As we've opened Amtech about 2,100 kids in and out of that building each day. Uh, talked with, uh, Tiffany Hooker over there yesterday, just briefly and really cool stuff going on. You know, the dentistry program and the pharmacy tech stuff. Um, even a program that we've had for a while in culinary with just some amazing, awesome new facilities with the bistro and the pastry lab. So cool stuff going on, and, um, exciting news with the phase one opening of Amtec as we start the 20 21, 20 22 school year.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Yeah, that is awesome. Let's get into this conversation with Jeremy. Well, Jeremy, it's exciting to have you on today. And one thing that I so find fascinating, Jeremy, is your educational philosophy on just asking questions and letting kids just start talking about those things. But one of parts of your bio that I find fascinating is that you are the professional development coach, the digital learning, the a i g programming, and then also the transformational coach. I mean, how cool. I've never even heard of that in a school district. And so just talk to us about your background.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Sure, absolutely. Well, first, thank you so much for having me. Uh, and I have to say, every time we interact with, uh, school districts, we tend to share stories and, and opportunities where individuals are, are showcasing just amazing work. And, and I think that's sort of a, been a pathway to what's, uh, been my life's work is really tapping into, uh, human potential. And, and in the field of education in particular, that transformation, I think is, is met with open arms when, when folks are looking for sort of honor in the field, but also refining their craft. And so, um, you know, from, from my earliest inception as a, uh, an elementary teacher, I focused on, on really trying to tap into student potential. And then ultimately when I got to, to lead schools and work with educators, it was the same thing. It was really how do we focus on, on sort of that individual transformation? And, and so that, that work has just been a part of who I am, whether it's title or whether it's, you know, just something that, you know, you talk to me on an airplane and I'm most likely gonna mention something about development. So
Speaker 2 (04:16):
What, what you're, what you carry that atmosphere that you carry. That's super cool. So tell us a story or something that from your early career that you felt like led you down this path of transformation and changing what the face of education looks like in so many classrooms.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Sure. Well, and, and I, I love storytelling in the sense that I do think it's a way that we can, can share components of who we are. And, and so I would say, uh, I never thought I was going to be an educator, truth be told. I was, uh, I was a marketing guy, you know, it was, I was in Deca, I went to Nationals. I thought, you know, what success was, was convincing people to invest in you. And I realized I had it backwards that success was convincing individuals to invest in themselves. And so, you know, the best way to do that is I think through education and, and through teaching. And so, uh, I sh shifted gears. I moved from South Florida to Boone, North Carolina to, to get a teaching degree. Uh, and that was quite a shock to go from a very urban environment to a very rural environment. Um, but I, I realized that I wanted to, to be somewhere where I could, could get the best teaching possible, um, to learn myself. And, and so it, it brought me into the world of education. And I, I think I still use those marketing skills, uh, but in a very different way. It's a power of persuasion, uh, for, for growing people.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Wow. I love that success you're investing in the success of, of other people and these teachers that are changing the world, one kiddo at a time. How has your, your journey taking you through all parts of education, both locally in North Carolina, but then also globally, because you, you're taking this idea to the global market, what does that look like for you?
Speaker 3 (06:12):
Yeah, you know, um, I think at, at one point in my career, I was an international baccalaureate coordinator, program coordinator and, and helped sort of do some IB stuff. And I think that served an itch to sort of see the world. I recognize the education. Uh, there are similarities and differences all across the planet. And I, I sort of, uh, learned from, from travel and from opportunities to engage with, with people from all, all across the country and the world. And so when they started offering training internationally, I, I thought, you know, educators should have an opportunity to see what, what teaching good teaching looks like in all sorts of part, uh, the world. And so, so that sort of was that first initial, um, opportunity. And then when p sort of opened up the, the opportunity to do some travel as the one of their trainers, I picked up on that work and got to travel some. But, uh, when the job to be the assistant national director opened, I couldn't say no. 'cause it gave me that opportunity to, to just engage and, and also get that, that up that chance to see people in their best light, um, everywhere in the land.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
So, Jeremy, talk to us, um, about your work here in Amarillo with Wand. And I, I'll just say one of the cool things about you, um, is that I've, I've watched you in one of our, our classrooms, actually, I think it was in the library at Wolfing. Um, I think it's really cool when, when trainers and people like yourself who work with teachers are still working with kids. And I, I've, I've been there, I've seen you work with some of our kids here in Amarillo at Wolfing. Um, and so talk to us about, you know, this, this, this recognition that wolfing has received as the, the first nationally certified Pide school in Texas. And just tell us a little bit about, you know, the journey that you've been on with Wolfing, and I know some of our other schools, but particularly with Wolfing and Erin and her colleagues and, and her and their kids at Wolfing.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
Absolutely, yeah, Kevin, that this, the power I think in this work is in, in recognizing when a school is sort of matched, uh, ideally with this pedagogy and, and sort of opening up student voice and, and choice and just their ability to connect around ideas and values. And so, um, when a team came to us a few years back at a national training, uh, Maria talked about sort of implementation with some schools, some elementary schools. And so we, we started the work and, you know, as you know, there are early adapters and sort of, uh, those that wanna just, just sort of ease into it a little bit more. And, you know, then of course we, we had the pandemic piece too, which, which was a pause button for a lot of campuses, which we absolutely honor and recognize that sometimes you just, you have to take that pause.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
But Wolfly was really unique in the sense that they opted to, instead of pause, almost focus energy in a way that, that, um, Heather, much like you mentioned, that transformation became a way to sort of insulate some of those emotions and those, that social aspect that's so necessary for school, which became even harder during the pandemic. And so for them to sort of take that piece and, and really honor it and support it and make it a part of their, their educational journey, uh, is so powerful. And, and, you know, we, we saw that happening. And so when Stephanie, the principals and, and their staff said, we think we we're ready for this certification, uh, I absolutely said, you know, I, I think so as well. And, and, you know, honestly, you're, you're sort of a beacon for so many other campuses to see, uh, that this can be done and that it actually is, is almost that much more powerful when students really needed a safe space to just even share what they were thinking, connect on ideas and, and just sort of build on each other's, uh, feelings about school.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Yeah. So it's, it's really, it's really been a fascinating thing for me to watch. Um, it, it's really cool to see, you know, kind of the full circle of, of trying something new, um, and watching you model that for our teachers at wolfing in the library, and then all the way through time being, um, being at, at Wolfly toward the end of the year last year in May, and watching a couple of teachers with their own kids, um, having a, having a seminar in, in the round house. And, and so it's just been, been really cool. What, what, in your mind, um, what, what was the key for wolfing? I mean, what, what really, uh, you said just a minute ago that whenever they mentioned pursuing the certification, you really didn't have any hesitations. And so what were the components of you not hesitating and realizing they're there, they're ready for this, um, because there's a, you know, it's easy to say that they were ready and, and that you didn't have any hesitations, but there was a lot that went into you not having that hesitation. So talk to us about what were, why, why didn't you hesitate about wolfing?
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Well, you know, uh, with certain campuses, you, you can walk into a building and almost immediately sense the sort of the culture, uh, within the, the building and, and how the staff interact and, and how they communicate and support each other. And, and I think, uh, their implementation team, and that's sort of a key aspect to this work is, is not having one single person sort of do the heavy lifting. And so, uh, Stephanie and the implementation team, and Erin and all the folks that were really committed to sort of meeting their fellow teachers, sort of where they were at, you know, that idea of, of seeing someone's possibility and coaching and supporting them, not letting them feel alone, I think was, was really what stood out as, as, you know, this is a growth mindset, so let's find the assets that, that are in the building currently and leverage them.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
And so it was easy to see that the connectivity and the support and their ability to, to lift each other up. And, and so I think, you know, sometimes, uh, we meet people where they're at and we sort of, uh, assume that's where they are. I think at Wolfly, when you see their, their interactions, they see where someone can be, they sort of see that transformation happening. And so it was, it was so easy to support, and, and, and truth be told, I think I learn as much from them when I go visit as I could ever possibly share, because I get those stories of, of, you know, what worked and what didn't. And that's also the power in this work. You learn just as much by having a, a seminar that did not go the way you expected it versus, you know, following sort of a recipe and hoping the cookies come out the way you wanted.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
So ke so let's talk just a little bit about that idea of, of failure when it doesn't quite work the way we want it to work. Um, and I think back to your story and you said, well, I had this plan and we're gonna go this direction and your life, and then life does crazy things like that, and it gives us different opportunities. And you jumped on a different opportunity. Um, how has that idea of almost failing forward, kinda like Brian Tracy talks about helped like shape who you've become as a husband, as a father, as an educator, not just in your home life, but also in, in the life of Pedea and the way that, um, it's been growing?
Speaker 3 (13:36):
Yeah. No, that it's, you know, that absolutely is a, a huge piece of, of sort of my story, I think is an, and recognizing that that calculated risk is essential for growth. And, you know, I think it's sort of one of those, uh, those ideas that, you know, until you actually jump, you don't know necessarily if, if you can fly or not, right? Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Right? And that's so powerful. 'cause we're asking our kids on a daily basis, Hey, let's think outside the box, let's move this. But then as professionals, as teachers, um, we don't often do that in that modeling is super important. And so how, when, when you think about that, how does it look in, in a classroom, just like a general setting classroom, because for me, I teach secondary and science, and you know, when, when I was reading through some things, I thought, wow, is this just for English? Or how does this exactly look? And how do we teach kid to have kids to have that conversation where it is safe and we are authentic? What does that look like?
Speaker 3 (15:36):
Well, uh, you know, that's such a great question. I, I think, you know, the, the opportunity in areas that, disciplines that we sort of consider to have right or wrong answers, right? Science in particular, there's sort of that sense of, you know, is this, you know, we don't want necessarily to arrive at the wrong answer, but that's also if you look at, at the way lab works at, you know, at the highest level of science, it's continuous failures until it's not. Right? So, so that's the, yeah. So the piece of, of helping students see that we, and, and science, uh, breakthroughs are not typically done in silos or with just one individual. So it's also relying on the minds of your team and your, your, you know, your lab group. So I think it's, it's that sort of building of, of collaboration around we're, we're brighter together than we are if we try to sort of work in silos.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
So tell us, Jeremy, just for, for our staff and, and people listening who may not be familiar with Padea, tell us, tell us kind of in a, in a nutshell, what is it, and then, and then, and then tell us what does the research say about its effectiveness? So what, what, what is it if you do it, what are, what is it gonna lead to for your kids and why does it work according to the research? And then I think we need to just have Erin chime in about, you know, what does she see in her own classroom, but what is Padea, um, and, and what does the research say about its effectiveness?
Speaker 3 (17:08):
Sure. Yeah. You know, Padea is sort of one of those things. I mean, it's, it's a Greek word, uh, that, that means the rearing or upbringing of children, uh, but it's sort of is, is active learning and, and active in the sense that the, the student has to sort of be the primary centerpiece in doing that heavy cognitive lift. And so it sort of places the teacher in that supportive coaching role in the sense that they're, they're there to sort of help in that, that process of, of bringing, um, curiosity or wonderment into a, a sort of light where it can be then, um, critiqued and, and sort of, um, looked at in a, a way that's sort of what we're asking students to do when they're wanting to do close reading, or we want them to really understand, uh, a math problem. So it's, it's sort of, it's pairing a, a level of wonderment with this sense of, of sort of critical thinking to allow there to be that sort of balance of, of why do we think what we think versus, let me share what I hope the right answer is. So Pide is all about teaching how to think, not what to think.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
And what does the research say about its effectiveness with, uh, kids?
Speaker 3 (18:24):
Sure. Yeah. Um, well, one of the probably, uh, heaviest hitting researchers in, in the field of education right now is John Hattie. Um, and, and his sort of, um, his thoughts on, on which aspects, um, which things, uh, get the most sort of growth or leverage with students. And, and he did some work with us early in sort of measuring the effectiveness of, uh, conversation through seminar, in particular PDay seminar, uh, and sort of looking at that cycle, which is not just the discussion, but it's also that sort of connection to, uh, students setting goals, uh, having that authentic feedback from peers and from their teachers. And so it's, it checks a lot of the boxes that Hattie sort of says are the biggest sort of levers in growing students. Um, I'd say the other piece too is, is that sort of sense of building self-efficacy, uh, to where, again, back to that idea of failing, but it's, it's, uh, scary to put out an idea if you're not quite sure if it's right or not.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
But in the safe space of a seminar, when you're sort of constructing meaning or making sense of things and weighing and considering, uh, you can, you, you do two things. You, you, you build that self-efficacy, but you also, as an active listener, you build a level of empathy. Uh, and I'd say that to me, really my passion right now is, is in studying, listening in particular, that being the linchpin in this whole process. And I think if we help students better activate as listeners, it really gives them a chance to sort of make sense of, of the world and sort of collect all those things that we're saying, trying so desperately to help them sort of, um, understand. So I would say the listening pieces is huge.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
If there ever were a time in the world where listening is pretty important, maybe we might be at that most important time in, in, in our world. Uh, just kind of a side comment there, Kevin's opinion. Aaron, tell us, um, at Wolfly, what do you, what do you see as the, the, you know, two or three biggest, most powerful things in relation to what you've done with your kids with PED at Wolfly?
Speaker 4 (20:39):
Um, I think a lot of the power that I've seen and the change that I've seen in students is just, um, a stronger grasp on their own thoughts and their own feelings. I have seen students, um, go from not being able to converse with each other in an effective way to being able to really break down a piece of text or even just any sort of conversation, um, and get to a greater understanding with each other through that. Um, we've seen a lot of social emotional growth growth at Wolf Wind during a time when a lot of people were seeing regression in those areas. Um, we've had less office referrals in the last few years that we've been doing this. Um, and as well as that, we've also seen, um, our fifth grade students last year who have been doing Pide for three years now, had incredible star reading scores. Uh, I think they were at That's awesome. 98%.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
That's amazing.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Cool. Almost every time talk, I, I know we have to be careful, but talk a little bit, almost every time I talk to one of you guys who really have gotten into implementing, um, seminar, you talk about how this engages kids, some kids that you are not able to engage in the normal things that we do. So kids that are struggling emotionally, kids that have special learning needs, kids that just really have a hard time, you know, doing the normal school thing, sitting at a desk and doing their work. Um, you, you all, almost always, you guys talk about how it engages the most un-engaged kids that we have. So just talk about why you think that works.
Speaker 4 (22:24):
Uh, I think the beauty in Pidea is that it's not a normal class setting, so it really, um, helps those kids that maybe don't do well in a normal class setting to achieve goals and to really thrive. Um, I've seen students who have a hard time getting something down on paper say the most profound thing in the room, because instead of worrying about spelling or writing the correct letters the correct way, they're just talking and answering a question with what's in their brain. Um,
Speaker 2 (22:59):
So Erin, for you, when you were approached to do this, I mean, it took a lot of risk on your part to say, okay, I might, I might jump in on this. And so talk to us about your story, because as educators, we're often nervous to try something new because what if it doesn't work? Um, but you didn't, and you jumped in and some of your stories are just, uh, like moving heart moving because they're changing the lives of kids. So talk about that risk that you took.
Speaker 4 (23:30):
I think as educators, we, um, are some people that have the hardest time with change, and I was lucky that this was brought to me really early in my career, but it was still really scary because you're giving a lot of power away to your students when you do a seminar. Um, but I immediately saw buy-in when I listened to the conversations that kids who had never even done this before were able to have over a text that was probably way higher than their grade level. Um, you might ask me another question to keep going. Sorry,
Speaker 2 (24:05):
So that, that risk and, and then now you're leading it like your kid, you're, you are a leader in this, even at, like you said, early in your career, you're getting to change something and influence other teachers who are influencing kids who are going out and changing the world. And when we talked the other day, you talked, we talked about how it's changing conversations. How do you see that changing conversations in the kids' worlds, even outside of education where it's growing these kids, like you said, I want my kids to be better humans, people when they leave my classroom.
Speaker 4 (24:40):
Yes. I think, um, Jeremy said this earlier, he said, you're teaching students how to think, not what to think. And I think, um, I'm really seeing my children sit down and process something that they've read or that they've heard or a conversation that they've had, and think through the things that they're hearing from their parents or the news or social media and forming their own opinions. And I think that's something really powerful that payday has given them.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
That's amazing because
Speaker 1 (25:10):
All right, Erin, so I'm just, I'm gonna kind of push you a little bit. So, um, for all of our teacher friends that are listening, um, um, and I, I know you teach science and social studies, I, I won't claim to know much about science. We'll leave that to Heather and, and her, her colleagues. Um, but as an old geography teacher who understands social studies and keeping up with Devi, a social studies is one of those areas where the teaks are so wide. I mean, there are so many teaks you have to teach in the course of a year. And so how do you, how do you really get yourself to a place given everything that you're expected to teach, and the limited time that you have to teach it, to really say to yourself, I'm gonna take, um, I'm gonna take a week of instruction every six weeks or every month, or, because I think that's generally kind of the commitment you guys have made. So how do you deal with that internal struggle of, I've got all this to teach, but I really am gonna make time to do P day and what it entails. How do you, how do you, how do you get yourself to make that commitment and act on doing something new as opposed to just keeping on doing the same things you've always done?
Speaker 4 (26:25):
Um, several things. One is, while it is a week every month or every six weeks, it's a very short amount of most days. The only day that really takes up a lot of class time is the day that we do our seminar. Um, and as far as that's concerned, I, there, there are seminars that are social studies related, there are seminars that are science based, there are seminars that are math based. Um, but going further than that, the idea that PIDEA seminars are teaching critical thinking, I think feeds into everything that we do as educators. Um, our students are analyzing texts. They are, um, writing with a purpose. When they're done analyzing the text, they're learning critical thinking skills. And I think all of that ties back into all of the teaks that we're teaching, no matter what subject we teach. I also think as educators, one of the biggest things that I personally believe about my classroom is if my kids are not leaving my classroom a better person than I have not done my job. And ea fosters that in the easiest way possible.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
So you really believe through seminar that your kids are getting to those higher levels of learning and understanding, and they are better prepared for the tests that they will take. And I'm not just talking about star, I'm talking about, you know, one day in middle school, one day in high school when they take the s a t or the A c T or whatever. And then, and then in your mind, in addition to those higher level, level thinking skills, you just really believe this makes people better, little brothers and better sisters and better, um, sons and daughters. Right?
Speaker 4 (28:05):
Absolutely. You sounded up perfectly.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
Alright,
Speaker 3 (28:09):
Jeremy, Kevin, I, I, go ahead. I was just gonna add real quick to that, uh, where we see sometimes the biggest distinction and sometimes you don't always measure that growth, especially if you're teaching, uh, elementary students when they're in college or they're applying for fellowships or for, uh, scholarships or grants. It's when they have that interview or it's when they have that essay, they need to write that you really see the distinction of them as thinkers. Yeah. Because they're able to really sort of go, not against the grain, but they're able to formulate sort of really unique and authentic pieces versus sort of following that recipe that I mentioned earlier. And so oftentimes we'll have employers say, hands down, I'll, I'll hire a Pide kid because I know that they're, they understand these things and they can advocate. And so they're, they become those sort of leaders in the workplace. They become those students that's, uh, that are more successful, uh, in college because they sort of understand that the how to think piece and, and the application beyond when, when we have them. And yeah. So I just wanna echo to what Aaron was saying.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Yeah. That, and that's, I really, I appreciate you making that point, and I'm really, I'm really digging deep there with Aaron because I know we have a lot of teachers, um, and many of these are in some of our most complex schools and, and they're, you know, they're in this internal struggle of, you know, how do we get kids where they need to be in terms of the standardized test because their accountability for their school is, is driven, um, almost solely in some cases off of that. And so it's just this struggle of, you know, do I have time to really try things like pide, um, or should I do some of these more, more traditional things that we all, you know, are convinced sometimes falsely are gonna work for our kids? And so I know that, that that's a struggle that people have and, um, I think it's good that we acknowledge and recognize that struggle that people have. But I, I think it's interesting just to get Erin's perspective of really, you know, it is preparing her kids for those things. And then the cool thing is it's really preparing them in ways that you may never touch with some of the more traditional things. And you just mentioned them how to be, you know, a person that can interact in a business situation and advocate for themself either in college or in the workforce. So, cool.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
So what do you see, um, trends in education across the country in relation to this, in relation to more traditional aspects of teaching? Um, that as you travel across the nation and even the world, what are you seeing there?
Speaker 3 (30:50):
Sure. Yeah, that's a, a a great question because I think, you know, education is not unique in the sense that it looks for, for sort of microwave solutions to crockpot problems. But it, it is, um, one of those places where new is, is either repackaged in a way that that allows for someone to invest and, you know, programs the way they're designed or to sort of have a shelf life anyway, so, so when you sort of strip away whatever the title might be and the the, you get to sort of the core of what it is, I think what makes P unique is that it, it really isn't a scripted sort of, um, it's more philosophical or, or pedagogical in nature. So it honors the teacher's craft and it can be done in a, you know, in a extremely conservative environment with success. It could be done in a liberal environment with success, it could be done in a private school, public school, homeschool, charter school.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
So because it's not about sort of, um, a, a prescriptive curriculum, it really is that sense of how do we communicate effectively? And, and I want to echo sort of Aaron's piece around that, that sense of confidence and communication. So if we think about learning at its apex, it's that ability to, to absorb in input that sort of, you know, that the reading and the listening and then to sort of think around it and then ultimately produce or have output through, uh, speaking and writing. And so it's that, you know, you could insert any content, but it's that sort of sense of can I communicate this effectively to someone else to sort of show understanding? And so, you know, we see we've got schools in Vancouver that have a really unique, uh, they do sort of a, a, a whole course within, uh, two weeks time, sort of this almost like bootcamp type thing where the students just go through this rapid cycle of learning and then they sort of can take that, that exam and, and do well and retain it. And they wanted to use seminar as, as, as really a, a formative assessment vehicle to test where their understanding before they got to that testable point, because if they can talk about it, uh, more like with, with understanding and also take support from others that they probably are going to maintain that,
Speaker 2 (33:09):
Right? 'cause we teach that in the class. Like if you can teach it to your friend next door that doesn't know it, then you have reached a higher level of understanding. I really appreciated what you said yesterday or yesterday, what you said earlier that, um, that it puts the teacher not in the center role, but it puts the student at as the focus and the teacher as the coach and guide. And can you just kind of explain what, just kind of what that would look like in a classroom, um, for our listeners?
Speaker 3 (33:42):
Sure. Well, and, and again, I'm gonna echo the wise words of Erin when she said the, the giving away of power or the transference of power. Yeah, that's both scary. And that's also transformational because sometimes we have that anxiety of, if, if I, if I let go, then it may be that they don't maintain or they don't gain what I'd hoped they will out of this lesson or out of this experience. Uh, but it sort of goes back to what Kevin was saying earlier about that, that sort of stress of I'm being measured by will they retain this information, so I'm gonna try that much harder to sort of fill the vessel. And so, and, and, and with Pidea it's really more about the vessel is already full. We just have to sort of understand how, how to let the students see that, that they in fact have those answers.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
So it really is a supportive, you know, almost sort of like, uh, you know, an expert professional, um, trainer might, might meet somebody and say, you just need to tweak this and you, you'll improve in this, whatever it may be. It really does sort of put teacher as coach in the sense that in developing those skills, it, you're meeting the students sort of where they're at, and then you're sort of helping them grow that vygotsky zone of proximal development. It's that sort of, let me support you with, with just a little bit more than you can sort of handle versus I hope you get this even though this may be well above or below where, where you're at. So it's, it is tricky to, to sort of have the student, uh, be an active partner in that. But as we sort of started this conversation when, when I was asked what payday is, I said, it's active learning. It really does sort of put student front and center in in their, their wonderment being the fuel for, for sort of this process.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
And they're taking ownership of their learning.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
Absolutely. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
That's, that's amazing because I think that's what we all want for our kids is to say, yeah, I got this. I'm gonna go do it because I am excited and wondering about all these questions, but so many times that's not what, not what happens 'cause we don't let go of the control of it.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
Well, and, and sometimes that, that perception of control, you almost need the, the principle or the building leader, the, the district leader to sort of almost say, it's okay if you release a little bit of this. I promise if I walk in, this is not going to impact your evaluation. And I think that's why Stephanie is so amazing in this, and Erin, maybe you could speak to this, she wants to see seminars happening. It's not a, Hey, wait a second, I noticed you forgot this part. Or I'm, I'm evaluating sort of your ability to do this effectively. It's almost more that she's an ally and a support, uh, network to come in and say, I want to see this so then I can go and support others as well. Aaron, would you say that's maybe
Speaker 4 (36:32):
Absolutely. Um, it is very encouraged for all of us to be doing this, and she's always willing to help and find coverage. She covered my class today so that I could be here. Um, she's definitely fostered that environment at our school,
Speaker 2 (36:46):
And I think that's important as educators that we don't feel so many times there's an atmosphere of it's us against the administrators, against the kids. Like it's this triangle that we're all fighting through instead of fighting towards a goal together. And so when we feel that support, um, I've got that going on at my campus too. Like, I have this support for some things that are going on. And when you do feel like that as a teacher, that you have that kind of backing and yeah, we're, we're good. If you go in there and try that, I mean, it makes you feel like you can reach for the stars. I mean, like, I can do anything as a teacher if I know that my administration's behind me to try the new thing.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
Yeah. And I, I think I would just reiterate in conversations that I've had with Stephanie, you know, it, it, I think the whole process of doing this and then supporting Erin and the teachers to take this risk, it, it really has impacted Stephanie in, in other ways. You know, not just about padea, but other things in the, in the culture and the environment that they're trying to build at Wolfly. And, um, and it's helped her, you know, allow herself as the principal to, to let go and to encourage risk taking. And it's one thing to tell people, you know, take that risk, you know, do something a little different, but it's just as scary for her as the principal because our principals understand that they're accountable for, you know, what happens at their school day to day, but they're also accountable in the end for, you know, how kids do. And, um, and so I think it's, it's just as scary for her as the principal. And I think, you know, in conversations that I've heard had with her, it, it, it's helped her this process, you know, overall build things and not only, um, facilitate pide, but also just the environment and the culture generally that they want, um, at, at, at Wolfly. So,
Speaker 2 (38:35):
And I think most all, all educators want that culture, that atmosphere where we're growing and we do have that growth mindset because life's always changing and we need to, you know, model that change and that growth and always asking those questions of how can I be better and what can I do, you know, to make my classroom take it to the next place. And, you know, like, like Kevin said, our administrators do a great job of supporting our teachers to make that change.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
It also has a, a ripple effect with the staff too, because this is something that's not just done to kids. It truly is all inclusive in the sense that the staff are having these seminar discussions, they're being vulnerable, they're, they're sharing ideas, they're transforming. And so it, it really, I think has this this ripple effect of, of keeping especially your irreplaceable teachers, those teachers, you know, that are just the lifeblood of your campus because they feel supported and nurtured and, and have an opportunity to share their voice to, to sort of bring about, if there's like, things that are brewing, a seminar almost becomes that safe space to say, Hey, we notice some of these things are are happening, but you're doing it through text, so it's not directly calling someone out. You have that, you pick the right text, you can talk about some of those emotions in a way that you wouldn't otherwise do. So. So it, I would say it also from a staff standpoint, you really kind of, when you get to that spot that wolf's at, you just see the camaraderie and, and the, the support amongst each other and, and it's, you wanna be there. Like, it, it's sort of a, has a pulse to it that, that you don't see at, at a lot of campuses.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
Cool. Aaron, what have we missed? What, what, what's anything else you're dying to tell us about what pidea has done to with your kids and for your classroom and for your instruction and, and for your own, you know, you as a teacher and a person. What, what have we forgotten?
Speaker 4 (40:36):
I think I just really wanna reiterate like, it is a risk to start this and to do this and to try implementing this in your classroom, but it's a risk with a lot of reward. Um, and I, I wanna emphasize that, uh, it's not hard to do
Speaker 1 (41:49):
Awesome. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (42:52):
And I just have one more question. Awesome. Course not really at all around Pide, but, um, I'm an avid reader myself and I see all your books in the background. Um, and so, hey, shoot us some good, some good books that we should be reading, professional development, personal development, like what do you read, right?
Speaker 3 (43:10):
Uh, you know, that that's a, that's a, a lofty question that we could spend all sorts of time on, and I'd be happy to, to extend, you know, for me, what I find is that digestible bits, either short stories, uh, those things that sort of provoke your, your thinking around a topic. I'm always, when I'm not, uh, leading professional development or pidea work, I'm reading to try and find that perfect seminar plan or find that that piece of text or that piece of artwork that, that I can share with teachers. And so, um, as of late, what I, I've sort of been read, the one that I I'm reading now is, uh, begin here by Jack Barson. And, and this is sort of all about, uh, well, the for forgotten conditions of teaching and learning, but it's, it's sort of that sense of, of, you know, why did we get into this work?
Speaker 3 (43:59):
Uh, what, what sometimes teaching, um, transforms in a way that we don't always necessarily, uh, expect or, or had planned for, but it also gives us, uh, an opportunity to, to see how we come out on the other side. Um, just yesterday with a, a faculty, we did, uh, a short story called The Fun They had by Isaac Asimov. That's all about sort of futuristic learning. It's a perfect, I think upper elementary or or middle school seminar text. Uh, we do have a, a plan on in our collection, but to talk about like students desperately wanting a more traditional with kids environment because the, the, the young lady basically stays at home all day and goes into a room next door bedroom to learn. She, she missed so much of that communal piece. So in talking about what it's like to return back to school and what kids desperately want to sort of interact, uh, was, was just powerful. So that, that was yesterday's read and it was one of the best seminar discussions I've had with the faculty in quite a while.
Speaker 2 (45:04):
That's awesome. Thanks for sharing that with us.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
You know, I'll, I'll also mention, you talked about John Hattie, um, and I can't, I'm gonna mess this up, but the, the white book, it has a white cover. Um, it, it's one of the most interesting, is it, is it where he has just all the different things that you can do and the effect size? Um, yep. Jeremy, you may, yeah. Visible learning. Yeah, I think it is Visible learning. That's an awesome book. And so anybody out there that's listening, um, you heard Jeremy talk about John Hattie, who is an absolute big dog in, in really measuring what is most effective in classrooms. I know there are a lot of people in Amarillo and, and our principals who, who really keep a keen eye on that book, and that's a really, really good one that fits in with, with, uh, Jeremy mentioned and John Hattie. So that's really cool.
Speaker 2 (45:51):
Some great read when we're talking about getting our kids back up to speed where we need 'em to be after Covid too. Yep,
Speaker 1 (45:58):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (46:00):
Well, and I just want to thank you all. I think the, the work being done in Amarillo is so very unique and, and inspirational and, and, you know, it's, it seems like, well, why wouldn't you just want this to sort of extend to multiple campuses? But in reality, there's so many macro and micro things that happen politically that make it trickier that, you know, just dynamics within a system that you may sort of one campus sort of takes claim to it, and then it, it makes it harder for others. And I, we've never felt that that's ever been the case. It's almost sort of been how do we support the growth in a way that's sustainable? And, and that's, you know, uh, much credit to Maria and, and to, you know, uh, administration, the, the upper administration, even your superintendent coming to, to training. And that's rare to have, have executive staff that, that wanna understand this at a level to have Kevin say, let's have a podcast about it. Like, this typically doesn't happen. So we often say like, you need to be watching what Amarillo I s d is doing because it, it's pretty unique and, and I think it's, it's special. So those that are listening, like, you should be proud of the work being done and, and, and it's an honor to be around you, to be with you. And I'm humbled by, by all the great things happening.
Speaker 2 (47:11):
Well, Jeremy and Erin, it has been a rich and engaging conversation. Been thinking about a way that we might could end this, this podcast. And I came up with a tagline. We'll see if it sticks. If not, we'll go back to the drawing board. You get one life, lean in and stay curious.